Remove the Shadow Rep from Parliament?

[Kyonko]

The Shadow Rep is the position for the runner up but in most cases, they don't have much of a role outlined, they may as well fight for a cabinet seat rather than holding a position which no longer serves much perpous as any minister can start to a vote to removed someone.

I'd prefer this to be a simple vote rather than a long debate, so I'm putting a 48 hour timer on this, I do plan to reintroduce the Shadow Rep when there is more intrest in parliament, but until there is, I see it as a wasted position.

Vote yay or nay, abstains are fine to but won't affect anything unless they outweigh one of the other decisions.

Yay: 1
Nay: 0

[Sousen Ichimonji]

Hmm. I suppose the option is either remove the postion or to give it a definitive role. And as you touched upon kyonko, there isn't enough interest in parliament to warrant so many more or less spare positions. I vote yay, but I would be interested to see an alternative view.

[Kyonko]

You're a great coalition partner when you vote with me.

An alternative would be for an additional cabinet seat to be made but this is down to the individual forum rep at the time, the cabinet can be as big or small as they want, personally, if people vote in favour of removing the Shadow Rep, for the duration of my term, I would create a Minister of the Opposition position in my cabinet, giving them the same power as cabinet ministers.

Yay: 2
Nay: 0

[Rebel X]

My job as Runner up and Shadow Representative has always been to be the opposing party to the Majority Leader. I've done that job well along with other former Reps. We don't just agree and allow every little bit of legislation to go on without presenting the proper other side of the issues. In Parliament a majority and minority exist and that Minority party was given to the shadow rep/runner-ups and why it later on became the reason for keeping shadow reps.

It's the same thing as having an opposing party. The only difference is that  it's a party that's not in the Majority(Kyonko's Dictatorship)

If you have a problem with what I'm doing or not doing with my position then you should tell me. I'm not trying to take this personally but this is my position and it is what I've been doing for several terms. My votes simple,

Nay

[Kyonko]

Firstly, I'd like to say that my party is, arguabally, the majority party, with 44% of the votes from the last rep election, which is pushed up to 50% as     Sousen Ichimonji joined in coaltion after Kotetsus departure from the role. I mean if you don't like the voting method, feel free to propose a new one but that's another topic.

There's no reason not to have an opposing party, just not as an official role as it is right now, in future bringing it back as an official role might make more sense, but for the time being, it should manifest in a diffrent form.

To be a true opposition party, your party wouldn't be allowed to be a part of a cabinet, infact only members of an elected reps party would and those they are in agreement with, but we don't have enough intrest in this for people to come and join in, as a result, position cut backs and comprimises are made, if that makes sense.

In future, I would like to evolve this because I find it fun, I would like to see an opposing party in the form of 3 or more members, then it can be more of an official role.

If you wish, I can leave an opposing party mask on the parliment forum, as it is but on the main forum, remove it and on the wiki, so it becomes more of an unofficial position but holds some ground on this forum.

It's nothing against what you are doing or not doing, there is no role set out for the shadow rep other than to be an opposition, which can be done without the official title.

[Bouncefox]

I've been on this forum for a couple of months now. When I went into a little research of what all these terms were, and what was what. I never could actually find a nice sampling of what the Shadow Representative does. True, it's a spot for the runner up, but, do we really need it?

I do agree with the others, though. I do think it should be brought up again once Parliament gets a little more popular. But really, with around six members total posting, I don't find it necessary. It's not like the removal is going to be set in stone. We can always bring it back.

That being said, I vote:

Yay. 

[Kyonko]

Yay: 3
Nay: 1

[Rebel X]

If the goal of this is to eventually change then I see no reason to remove it. If you want to do something about it then do something to change it. Don't remove something you already intend to bring back, That's tedious. Interest or no interest the parliament is still here with active members to get things done, I'm still active in the position and it doesn't need to be removed. A more definite change for the position, if required should be discussed now rather than wasting time with removal

[Kyonko]

So discuss it, I have put my ideas forward for changing it, it's there for you to discuss.

[Kyonko]

This is the most important topic in this section so far, keeping it on top.

[Sousen Ichimonji]

You're a great coalition partner when you vote with me.

Hurray, approval!

The thing is, the majority of Councillors take no active part in Parliament, and the Cabinet is also plagued by inactivity here. For whatver reason these may be, the fact of the matter is that we should be looking to downsize the number of positions in Parliament until interest picks up. And I think the clearest place to start is the Shadow Representative's, especially as the active member of the opposition has a place in he Cabinet anyway.

[Bouncefox]

And I think the clearest place to start is the Shadow Representative's, especially as the active member of the opposition has a place in he Cabinet anyway.

If Shadow Representative has a place in Cabinet, why not remove it from Parliament? Said representative would still have a say in things. It's not that anything would be different, the title would just be different. Didn't Kyonko say he would create a Minister of the Opposition seat for Shadow Representative, so, what's the difference? 

But, I don't recall anyone saying that Shadow Representative would definitely be coming back. I think it's only if activity picks up.

True, parties should have competition, but, why should a major opposing party be a "shadow" of the major party? From reading this topic, Shadow Representative to me is the party who opposes the majority party. Why must something like that be underlined at the forum and Parliament? Espeically when members usually don't check Parliament every day like Councilors and Cabinet Members.

To those who haven't even clicked on the link to Parliament, I think Shadow Representative to them is just a fancy title.

Considering this, my vote remains firm.

[Tim]

Hmm, I do see the reason for it. I think though that rather than remove it we should allow it to be motified to fit the role, even if we do just end up calling it Minister for the Opposition.

We might as well just sort it out while the issue has come up now.

Though unfortunately I don't have time to add any ideas but i'll be happy to read any ideas you may have!

~Tim

[Sousen Ichimonji]

And I think the clearest place to start is the Shadow Representative's, especially as the active member of the opposition has a place in he Cabinet anyway.

If Shadow Representative has a place in Cabinet, why not remove it from Parliament?

To counter MY OWN argument, it is worth considering that the leader of the Opposition won't always be in the cabinet, as Rebel is now. So a Minister of the Opposition does sound like a good idea to me. It's just another place in the Cabinet that's guarenteed to go to the runner up; simple, easy to manage and as the new positions a minister the defined role is there.

[Kyonko]

I'll remove it at the next rep election, unless a convincing argument overturns this.